Nascar REALLY needs to explain....

how the EFF the 47 and 96 are locked in on Owners points....lol.

JTG/Daugherty is the owner of the 47, but somehow they can use the #00 points of MWR?

Moorad and company still owns the 96, but they get the 38 points??

I dont; care if JTG and Morrad buy MWR and Yates dinner for the year and gives them the pickle tickle...the point of the matter is what they did amounts to a SALE of owner points for FREE to a Team that did not earn them.

And yet EGR cannot sell off their 2 extra cars that had owner points, but then pull the same bullshit with Front Row Motorsports....


Nascar is a joke

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Beagle7 on January 28, 2009 at 11:15pm
Penske and others should be pissed....Hornish, Elliot and Smith should be locked in for the 500....
Permalink Reply by JoCo on January 29, 2009 at 2:25am
Yeah I was wondering about this too...I thought it was OWNER points, and that HoF still OWNS the 96 car, not Yates. And likewise with POS and JTG's arrangement
Permalink Reply by Mario on January 29, 2009 at 3:39am
The way it works, from my understanding, is this:

JTG partnered with MWR starting last year and changed the #00 to #47. Because the #00 was racing as the #47 under the MWR banner late in the year and will be running out of the MWR shops with help from MWR, the #47 is able to keep the points from the #00 (there may be a small ownership percentage in JTG by MWR).

HOF Racing merged with Yates Racing (so Yates has a stake in the team...how ever little it may be). Since the operation is being run out of Yates Racing, they can swap the owner points between the #38 and the #96.

As for the EGR deal with Front Row Motorsports, it is basically the same thing as the HOF/Yates deal. EGR has Top 35 car owner points for 6 cars (4 they can use, 2 they cannot). With FRW partnering with EGR (and EGR more than likely having a small stake in FRW for the one car), they can use the points from the #15, #01 or #41.

From what I can tell based on how Michael Waltrip acquirred the #77 points back in 2006 (according to Jayski), NASCAR will not allow a team to outright sell the points to another team. I believe there has to be some sort of ownership interest by the team "selling" the points for a car and the team "buying" the points.

Of course, I could be wrong. I am just going by what I have read on Jayski and various other sites.
Permalink Reply by Beagle7 on January 29, 2009 at 2:04pm
JTG ran a Michael Wlatrip racing #00 car. Nascar allowed them top change the NUMBER only as a favor to their sponsor so to avoid confusion (havign a Little Debbies 00 then a Little Debbie's 47). But MWR OWNED that car.

"Michael Waltrip Racing (MWR) announced Friday that Marcos Ambrose is scheduled to drive for the racing organization in the Sprint Cup Series Pep Boys Auto 500 at Atlanta Motor Speedway with Little Debbie as primary sponsor. The #00 MWR Toyota team will switch to the #47 number for the final four events. At this time, the Michael Waltrip Racing #47 driver is to be determined for Texas, Phoenix and Homestead [Ambrose was scheduled to run all three races in the #21 Ford and #47 Ford, the the MWR changed that, but he could end up in the #47 Toyota for the 3 races]. “It’s really nice to have a head start on the 2009 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series season and integrate Marcos with our team,” Waltrip said. “We are pleased that NASCAR worked with us to switch our number so that Marcos and his sponsors have continuity. I, of all people, know the importance of car numbers to sponsors. We are very appreciative that everything worked out. This is a great opportunity for Marcos and it gives him a glimpse of what next season may look like for him. We are really happy about that.”



Now..JTG, an entirely separate entity is using the #00 Owner pts. Thats a friggin SALE! I can show you quotes on Jayki where JTG/Daugherty say this is not a merger

" Daugherty stressed there was still independence from MWR, however, saying it is not a merger and that the #47 is not a fourth Waltrip team."

So how the F@#$ do they get those #00 Owner Pts?
Permalink Reply by Mario on January 29, 2009 at 3:13pm
How about quoting the whole thing from Jayski and not just the part to prove your point? I never said that JTG merged with MWR, I said they partnered (which is substantiated below). Because of this "technical alliance" the #47 can use the points earned by the #00/#47 in 2008.

UPDATE 2: JTG Daugherty Racing has signed what team co-owner Brad Daugherty called a "technical alliance" with Michael Waltrip Racing, and thus will field Toyota Camrys full-time in the Sprint Cup Series beginning in 2009. The deal will be announced formally Wednesday afternoon. Under the agreement, JTG/Daugherty receives the same chassis, engines and technological information-sharing that Waltrip gets through Toyota Racing Development. "This way we don't come out of the box already behind," said Daugherty, reached by phone Wednesday. "Actually, this puts us about two years ahead of where we would have been otherwise." Daugherty, an ESPN NASCAR analyst, said the alliance includes the #47 team being housed under the MWR roof. Daugherty stressed there was still independence from MWR, however, saying it is not a merger and that the #47 is not a fourth Waltrip team. "We'll work with Toyota Racing Development out of Costa Mesa [Calif.], and all their parts and pieces already flow through MWR," Daugherty said. "It just makes sense for us to be in-house over [at MWR]." Marcos Ambrose will drive the #47 Toyota, with sponsorship from Little Debbie Snack Cakes and Clorox.(ESPN.com)(10-1-2008)
UPDATE 3: JTG-Daugherty Racing announced it has chosen to field Toyotas during its inaugural Sprint Cup campaign in 2009, after forming a technical alliance with Michael Waltrip Racing (MWR) and Toyota Racing Development (TRD). JTG-Daugherty, co-owned by Tad and Jodi Geschickter and former NBA All-Star and current ESPN broadcaster Brad Daugherty, will enter the #47 Toyota sponsored by primary sponsors, Kingsford Charcoal, Clorox Laundry and Household Products, and Little Debbie’s Snack Cakes. JTG-Daugherty will move its Sprint Cup operation into MWR’s 140,000-square foot facility in Cornelius, NC, and receive cars, engineering, mechanical and other technical support from MWR’s existing infrastructure. TRD will support the JTG-Daugherty team with engines from its Costa Mesa, California, facility, and vehicle engineering support from its Salisbury, N.C., facility. Frank Kerr has been named crew chief of the #47 car. Marcos Ambrose, a former Australian V-8 Supercar Champion, has been named driver of the #47 Sprint Cup entry.
Michael Waltrip commented, “The alliance with Tad, Jodi and Brad happened because MWR has shown over the past few months that we can field a competitive product. This allows MWR to maintain the economies of scale we currently enjoy as a three-car team. We continue to invest in our development and this alliance helps keep the momentum we’ve gained in our fabrication and engineering departments this summer. We wanted to help Tad and Brad in their transition into NASCAR Sprint Cup ownership. If anyone can identify the hidden demons of a start-up team it is me. Having JTG-Daugherty operating in our shop helps our NAPA Toyota and our Aaron’s Toyota with David Reutimann. So this is one of the classic examples of win-win-win for everyone involved, most importantly JTG-Daugherty and MWR employees". This alliance does not change MWR’s desire to run a fourth car in 2009. “This doesn’t change anything from our original plans as our sales team is working hard on securing sponsorship for another MWR Cup entry. And those plans currently include [Michael] McDowell. That’s the same position we were in before the JTG-Daugherty alliance was formed.”(JTG/MWR PRs)(10-3-2008) Comment here
Permalink Reply by Beagle7 on January 30, 2009 at 10:40am
How about YOU show ME where in that WHOLE THING you just posted where it says MWR has partnered or has ANY ownership stake..even 1%..of JTG. As a matter of fact, the word "partnered" doesn't even appear ANYWHERE in the WHOLE THING you posted, except for your comment incorrectly saying it was such. They used the word alliance, which is significantly different term. Robby had a technical alliance with GEM last year..He didn't "partner" with Gem nor did they have a 1% stake in RGM during 2008...

Here end of the lesson..lol.
Permalink Reply by Mario on January 30, 2009 at 12:22pm
For starters, I NEVER said that MWR HAD any ownership in JTG, I said there MAY be. None of us know for a fact if they do or not. Only MWR and JTG know for sure. There is something between MWR and JTG that is allowing NASCAR to say it is ok for JTG to keep the owner points earned by the #00/#47 in 2008...otherwise, the #47 for 2009 would not be doing it.

And forming a "technical alliance" is just a fancy way of saying partnering. The fact remains, that based on the whole piece I posted, JTG will be running the #47 out of the MWR shops. They are getting what appears to be substantial help from MWR. JTG is not running the #47 out of their own garage and just going over to MWR to get what they need (ala Robby when he had his "technical alliance" with GEM).
Permalink Reply by Beagle7 on January 30, 2009 at 12:55pm
Every lawyer in America would disagree with your assertment that techinal alliance and partnering are the same and interchangeable....

and I agree and have said there may be an ownership part to this which makes it legit...but it HAS NOT BEEN reported...whihc it should be, which leads me to believe that such an arrangement DOES NOT exist and the media should be hammering Nascar about this.

As for being "in house"If your friend comes in to live with you in your house...do you automatically own any % of his stuff? lol.
Permalink Reply by MTwomn on January 30, 2009 at 1:00pm
Under NASCAR rules you may own a portion of his stuff. The rules are not clear and are subject to change.
Permalink Reply by JoCo on January 29, 2009 at 8:39pm
Like a common thread tying them together? Even if the same guy owns 1% of both teams, basically right?
Permalink Reply by Mario on January 30, 2009 at 12:15am
Exactly.
Permalink Reply by Beagle7 on January 30, 2009 at 11:00am
If ANYWHERE in the media it was reported that MWR has ANY Ownership stake in JTG/Daugherty Racing I wouldn't be raking this over the coals. But it isn't to be found. As a matter of fact, the quotes on the matter go OUT of the way to stress that JTG/Daugherty is its OWN team, though receiving cars, chassis, engines, and support from MWR. Doesnt Haas-Stewart basically get the same deal from Hendrick? I'm pretty sure Rick Hendrick has no ownership stake in Haas Stweart.

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