Joe Gibbs uses secret motor oil to gain more horsepower

http://blog.al.com/blogoftomorrow/2009/04/did_secret_blend_of_motor...

The Wall Street Journal has an interesting story about how Joe Gibbs Racing has spent about $1 million a year for the past 10 years trying to develop a better motor oil for its cars -- an oil that will help deliver an extra 10 horsepower.
The story relates how the formula for this motor oil is a secret guarded almost as carefully as the recipe for Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Joe Gibbs Racing, one of Nascar's richest and most-successful teams, won't say which company assembles its synthetic oil and will only identify the scientists who work on its formula as "William the chemist," who's in charge of formulating the oil, and "Douglas," who used to work for NASA and is in charge of analyzing the team's worn engine parts under a microscope. "I don't want other teams trying to find out who these guys are," says Lake Speed Jr., who runs the team's oil program.
And then it mentions how the team tried something new with its oils last year at Talladega.

Qualifying oils are thinner and faster, while regular motor oils have more viscosity to protect engines longer. Before Talladega last season, Joe Gibbs Racing decided to try thinning out its regular racing oil with a mixture of qualifying oil to eke out slightly more horsepower. After running the experiment by Douglas and William, Mr. Speed got a warning from the two scientists. "You're scaring the hell out of us," they told him. The experiment worked, and one of the team's drivers, Kyle Busch, won.
That would have been the spring race, which Busch won when a caution came out on the last lap.

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Permalink Reply by TOG on April 13, 2009 at 11:03am

this is good stuff.

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Permalink Reply by Lance on April 13, 2009 at 12:34pm

My question is is this really true or is this just a promotional tool for Joe Gibbs Motor Oil? I tend to think the latter. Rick Hendrick, Jack Roush, and Richard Childress are no fools. They wouldn't let motor oil beat them.

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Permalink Reply by Bigzoom on April 13, 2009 at 12:46pm

I don't think this has anything to do with Joe Gibb's Motor Oil he sales...I think someone made that suggestion and it's taken everyone down a different path. This has to do with his teams finding a competitive advantage within the rules.

The Joe Gibbs' Nascar teams are running a oil designed by a chemist & a NASA guy. It's thin like qualifying oil, but holds up like thick oil. It gives the team 10-15 extra horsepower. It has been about a $10 million dollar science project over years to develop.

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Permalink Reply by Matt on April 13, 2009 at 1:00pm

10-15 hp? No way.

Do you realize how much money Exxon-Mobil, BP, Shell, Valvoline, AMSOIL, etc spend on developing lubricants for racing applications in a given year? Way more than 10 million. Chemist and Nasa employees are great, but you are kidding yourself if you think an independant company developed something that flows so well it produces 10-15 more hp.

1-2 hp, possibly, but even then hard to believe the larger companies dont have their own similar formula. The article even states an oil company makes the oil for Gibbs; do you really think said company would not "borrow" the recipe if it was that superior to their own product?

Possible small advantage, definate promotional tool.

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Permalink Reply by alan4s on April 13, 2009 at 2:26pm

Those were my thoughts too Matt.

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Permalink Reply by Matt on April 13, 2009 at 6:10pm

Success? No I cannot argue that. But a 10-15 hp advantage? Trust me, they would be winning a lot more than they are, especially at restrictor plate tracks. Its the entire package that works at Gibbs, from the drivers to the chassis development to engine design, etc.

I wont even go into the thermodynamic and kinematic reasons for why its hard to believe oil can add or subtract that amount of horsepower. Oil is not some sort of witchcraft, its purpose is to lubricate parts in the engine that see metal-to-metal contact. You are looking at over a 1% gain in horsepower from oil, developed by a chemist and one former Nasa engineer? Apparently the AIMSOILs, Valvolines, Exxon Mobils, etc of the world are staffing way too many people. They created the substance, but they cannot make it themselves? Really?

This I can guarantee is not the reason they are winning races. It would be under the hood of a lot more cars if it was, for example any of the cars that have associate sponsorship from the company that makes the oil for Gibbs.

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Permalink Reply by robbyfansinceimsa on April 13, 2009 at 10:18pm

Matt, if you read the website I referenced, you will see they do not really call the oil by viscosity but by application. The Gibbs oil is speced by engine clearances, type of racing and materials etc. I do not think that the HP claims of 10 HP are too far out of line. Some friends used XP3 in Rolex GT cars and it thinned out so much with heat that they would lose oil pressure. So much so that they could not use it. This would not happen to the car using Mobil 1. I would imagine a little over 1 hp per cylinder due to thinner oil is not out of the ordinary. I have seen 10 hp by just trying 2 different sets of new spark plugs in a Viper which only has 450 at the wheels. What the article does not say is how much Penske, Hendrick, Roush, Childress etc are spending on their oil programs. I can assure you that what they are running in qualifying and possibly in the races is not the same thing you can buy at Pep Boys.

matt

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Permalink Reply by Matt on April 14, 2009 at 12:16am

Hold on a second....

I have looked at Gibbs oils in the past, for street and track apps. I agree thinner oil can reduce horsepower loss, there is a reason things like dyno oil and qualifying lubricants exist. I never said that wasnt possible. What I am saying is not possible is that Joe GIbbs Racing, with 10 million dollars spent over the course of a decade, has such a superior product that they have a 10-15 hp advantage over other teams. Hendrick, Roush, etc dont need oil programs, they let the oil companies and their significantly larger R&D budget (try almost 10 mil in a year) design their lubricants.

NO team uses oil from "Pep Boys." Its almost impossible to think Gibbs gives the formula to an oil company who manufactures it to their spec, and said oil company not borrowing the formula if it is indeed that much better.

This is smoke and mirrors, and a definate plug for Gibbs oil. The systems they use to lubricate their engines internals (hint hint) may play a significant role in any gains seen from specific oils, but again if their was 10-15 hp advantage they would be more dominant. Dominant with every driver, not just Kyle.

Cliffs Notes: Anyone that believes Gibbs has developed some sort of snake oil that has a 10-15hp advantage over the racing lubricants designed by Mobil, Aimsoil, Valvoline, etc does not have a good understanding of oil or how much money petroleum companies spend developing their advanced lubricants. Nevermind the fact this secret formula is entrusted to one of the large oil companies to make for Gibbs.

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Permalink Reply by NIKAL on April 14, 2009 at 2:00am

Well we know all the Toyota teams are back to using the Dailey Engineering oil pump system. Patrick Dailt did say that the Toyota camp tried a different set up in the off season and withen only a few races Toyota was having engine issues and they went back to what was working before.

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Permalink Reply by Doug on April 13, 2009 at 10:59pm

I have to agree Matt if they had 10-15 more hp at plate tracks they would run away from the field. I'm not talking leading the pack most of the day, that much power would mean the 18,11, and even the 20 in their own draft lapping the field.