Fuel Injection.

Does anybody have an inside scoop on Fuel Injection?

For the first year or so I see the big teams with a hugh advantage.
You can bet they are already testing the shit out of all different combinations.

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Permalink Reply by ShaneH on April 5, 2011 at 10:50pm

Incorrect. It will be port fuel injected. While it will have a Throttle Body that mounts where the carb sits now, it will have 8 individual injectors, one per cylinder. Nothing low tech about it.

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Permalink Reply by Ken on April 5, 2011 at 3:19pm

So are they gonna be taking away the teams ability to change timing and "jetting" like they do now. Or are they gonna alow them a range of adjustments that are "within" a certain window?

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Permalink Reply by Carl Abrams on April 5, 2011 at 3:52pm

This is the grey area I was concerned with when I started this chat.
If there is indeed room to tweak it would be in the interest of all to get started ASAP.
You know the teams with big engine programs are already on top of it.
As for the ones like MWR that was mentioned earlier having ties with F1 someone somewhere is going to find areas to capitalize on.

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Permalink Reply by brian campbell on April 5, 2011 at 6:20pm

no more gas mileage races.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Shelton on April 5, 2011 at 6:50pm

If tweaking is allowed this puts the advantage back to the big four. Just as nascar would want it.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Jones on April 5, 2011 at 8:41pm

I don't really know beans about it but, I would think the cylinder head port is where the big guys would gain an advantage. A lot of flow bench time will probably make for big HP gains. As far as the ecm is concerned, it didn't take production racers long to learn that a variable resistor between the exhaust gas sensor and the ecm gave you control over fuel mixture and was easy to hide. Cup teams with a lot of resources will find ways. NASCAR still hasn't figured out how the Hendrick traction control system works!

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Permalink Reply by Mike Kenyon on April 5, 2011 at 8:54pm

I disagree about fuel milage.There's still only X amount of fuel and Y distance to go.And fuel stops are primarily dictated by cautions not fuel tank capacity.Fuel milage might go from 5 to 5.3 ,maybe that much.A properly tuned carburator is right in the hunt air/fuel ratio wise as fuel injection,where carb's may waste fuel is on the non-engine vacuum fuel enrichment curcuit (otherwise know as accellorator pumps) this is where 'saving fuel' comes in.The more you work the pedal (currently) the more 'rich' squirt's of fuel go thru the carb. This curcuit is also the hardest to tune into fuel injection.The biggest issue I see is if Na$crap mandates the stupid mechanical cable driven fuel pump system.I works ok (sometimes) at 8psi,I can only guess at the falure rate at say 36psi.

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Permalink Reply by GTX - HEMI on April 6, 2011 at 7:17pm

Currently waterman makes a cable driven high pressure fuel pump.....just have to figure out where the return line goes.

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Permalink Reply by Dave-O on April 6, 2011 at 1:37am

I hope this technology can transfer over to my bacon injector system. There's so much wasted bacon in the bacon carb.

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Permalink Reply by ShaneH on April 7, 2011 at 12:39pm

Tamper proof does not mean that fuel and spark maps will be fixed. It means that certain perameters are locked without a superuser login.

I spent the last 10 years tuning fuel injection systems in drag racing and road racing. My specialty is turbocharged drag engines, which make 1500hp to 2500hp, although I have worked on Jaguar and Aston Martin GT2 programs. Have worked on versions of the Mclaren ECM in the past. Very nice system. But I, and most engine tuners whether they be an old style carb guy or an EFI specialist, can make the same power with a Big Stuff 3, Motec, Accell DFI, Electromotive, Autronics, or McClaren. Where McClaren has it's plusses is in it's datalogging, data transmission, and "locking" capabilities. Nascar should be able to alleviate their black boxes as the Mclaren has the ability to handle that internally. Same with the data transmission packages for TV. Also, it has a pretty sophisticated ability to lock the parameters and datalogging. They can do a usb dongle secureID for access to superuser type functions and information. So unless you have a secureID dongle and a login with the correct credentials, you only have access to team parameters.

Whatever the case, I cannot see NASCAR not giving the teams access to tune the fuel map completely. They essentially have that now with the carbs. Otherwise, there will be a lot of twisted up piles of iron. As far as the Big 4 having an advantage? Not really. Only as much as they did before. Your engine tuners are going to be making the same tuning decisions as they did before. Instead of now they'll be clicking keys instead of turning a screwdriver to do it.

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Permalink Reply by ShaneH on April 7, 2011 at 12:43pm

Also, since I can make the same power with any of the ECM systems, were it me I would have had engines on the dyno with a Motec a year ago or more. No need to wait on getting my hands on a Mclaren ECM to start testing, when internally the Motec is very similar in it's design.