NA$CAR Teams to test fuel injection at Kentucky

And people complain about "cheaters" now. Just wait....computer hackers will have a new area to work in. What ever happened to NA$CARS "keep the costs down" ?

What next ? one lug wheels, paddle shifters on the steering wheel. You will find me at the local dirt track, this stuff is gitting ridiculous.

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1ly3ruspf06hvPermalink Reply by 1ly3ruspf06hv on July 7, 2011 at 1:32pm
Thank you for spelling his name the way it should be spelled... KNAUS is just not normal.
Permalink Reply by timothy price on July 7, 2011 at 1:35pm
i have another name for him but TOG would delete the post
Permalink Reply by Tooltime on July 7, 2011 at 2:38pm
the cool thing about fuel injection is when carl edwards flips crashlowski again, the motor will still run while the car is sitting on its roof! now if we can just figure out a way to put wheels on the roof!!!!
Permalink Reply by mj on July 7, 2011 at 2:58pm
NASCAR would just outlaw that too lol
Permalink Reply by WJM on July 7, 2011 at 3:07pm

Where NASCAR is most likely to screw up FI is when, not if, the manufacturers lobby for individual ECU mappings. Or worse, multiple mappings. For example, maps for 1 mile, 1.5 mile, road courses, etc.

Keep in mind that within a single engine map you'll find layered sub-maps that control ignition timing, fuel flow, A/F ratio, rail psi (if applicable), throttle position, etc.  A engine map can be 2D or 3D, but at its core is really nothing more than pretty graphical (and tabular) data that can be rendered quickly when you plug a laptop into the prom. Today's simulation software makes it possible to anticipate and/or calculate in "real time" the power/torque output of the engine based primarily on injection/ignition timing. However, you can also factor in things like inertia, intake temperatures, slip curves, lat/long acceleration, yaw rate, velocity, etc. and control the power/torque curves to maximize performance but we're now we're also getting into traction control.

In an engine with a direct mechanical link between the throttle pedal and the throttle body (not linear) the ECU (map) can monitor pedal position and the throttle pedal “input” as a "torque request/go-pedal” and adjust the throttle at the engine, ignition and injection timing, and A/F ratio accordingly to achieve the best possible throttle response and fuel efficiency.

So how can NASCAR police cheating? They can't, at least not with 100% certainty. Best practice would be to use a single ECU that monitors all the above parameters which can be preset with min/max tolerances. The units need to be sealed and retrieved after each practice, qualifying session, and of course, the race itself. The sealed units should also be distributed at random via a blind draw and delivered to each team's pit stall 15 minutes prior to each on track session. A "generic" sealed ECU would be available for engine tuners and used only in a designated, controlled paddock location.

 

*GTX-HEMI's head explodes*

Permalink Reply by timothy price on July 7, 2011 at 3:29pm
screw it just use Kinser,Hillborn or Enderle mecanical systems (i can really make that type work great)
Permalink Reply by ShaneH on July 7, 2011 at 4:38pm
I've seen a version of an ECM that Mclaren did for a spec series and it had a user interface with access to the following only:
1. 2D maps for fuel vs MAP(manifold absolute pressure in Kpa)
2. ignition timing vs MAP(manifold absolute pressure in Kpa)
3. Idle rpm and idle correction parameters
4. Transiet Fuel(accelerator enrichment and decay out, accelerator pump shot, and power valve shot)
5. Additive tables for coolant temp, air temp, etc

A superuser interface was keyed with a "gold dongle". If you had the gold dongle, you could set other parameters such as fuel injector size, run reports, etc. It also had traction control detection circuitry built in. Much like the MSD Digital 7's that the NHRA mandated, it would shut down and only a gold dongle could reset it if it detected the quick timing change events of a traction control circuit.

There was nothing else availble to the end user in the interface without having the gold dongle. In reality, the tuners have been trying to work around the inherant limitations of the carbs for years. In using the new EFI, they should be able to tune the engines for better transient throttle response(ie, when they have to pedal the car), safer operation, etc. The EFI is no golden bullet. It's still air and fuel and spark, just like it is now. One thing is that you could distribute ECM's(the teams would just upload their program as long as it fit the format and within a set parameter), fuel injectors, and locked fuel pressure regulators. This is a huge benefit at a superspeedway where you could limit the HP maximum with injector size while still keeping your throttle response, something the drivers have always complained about.

I'm an EFI tuner(I've done Grand Am, American LeMans, outlaw drag racing, even a Denver to LA underground cannonball race) so I dig the fact that we're going to get to see some technology in Nascar. The sky is NOT falling!
Permalink Reply by alan4s on July 7, 2011 at 5:02pm
Nice input Shane, thanks. Let's hope NASCAR and the teams make these sorts of details public for us fans to know.
Permalink Reply by Bruce Smith on July 7, 2011 at 8:44pm
@ShaneH, It's great to hear from someone that has been working on these systems and understands what the FI will and won't be able to do. Thanks for your input.

Most of us haven't owned an engine with a carb on it for 20+ years. This change is long overdue.
Permalink Reply by Wheaton56 on July 7, 2011 at 8:52pm
Shane, are you in Denver. And great info for us
Permalink Reply by ShaneH on July 7, 2011 at 10:13pm
No, I'm actually in Texas. Just had a friend who's father had participated in the original Cannonball Run in the 70s who turned another rich friend of mine on to the underground race. $5k to enter, 25 entries, winner takes $100k, promoter got $25k. We did it in a 1981 Chevy Silverado, tube chassis inside factory frame rails, turbocharged aluminum big block, Motech fuel injection, 6 speed , and 125 gallons of fuel on board. 979 miles in 8 hours and 3 minutes with one fill up on the way. Think about that. We averaged 125mph over 1k miles. :) I still have a smile on my face 8 years later. LOL. We ended up 2nd. A turbocharged cadillac beat us by 9 minutes. FWIW......the owner totaled it the next year testing for the Silver State Challenge 90mile open road race. He wanted to smash the 207mph average of the ex ARCA car that set the record in 2000.
Permalink Reply by Mike Kenyon on July 7, 2011 at 8:59pm
I was massaging a carb just last night for an engine I originally build eleven years ago.

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