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Should ASO slow the Hummers next year ?
To be frank, I think everyone knows that the Hummers are simply faster than the other cars. We know it, the competition knows it and ASO knows it. Take away our mechanical breakdowns and we would have easily won the majority of the stages; not just by a little, but a lot. Robby and Nasser are great drivers it's true, but to give them their due, some of the other drivers are no slouches either. We've all seen the videos of the Hummers and Mini's going head-to-head, and the Hummers just blow right on by. Whiners they may be, but other drivers have essentially said the same thing : while various terrain differences may favor different configurations, given the overall conditions this year, the Hummers are quite simply the faster cars.
So is it fair for ASO to continue to allow us to have a speed advantage, simply because, as a smaller team that advantage is assumed to be offset by reliability issues, or is there a legitimate case to be made for slowing the Hummers next year ?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Cartwright on
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that's racing
somebody will always be faster, and this year the hummers were fastest.
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Permalink Reply by Kenneth Earnest on
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They don't need to change any technical rules. They will just make the course such that the advantage of a shorter wheel base, and its tighter turning radius will be enough that the longer wheel base vehicles cannot compete for the overall. They routinely did that when VW was sponsoring the race. The course was especially suited for the VW's, what a coincidence.
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The Touregs were able to run much faster than the mini's on unimproved roads. If the VWs were still around, the Hummers wouldn't appear to be so much faster. For me, that isn't an issue with the Hummers. The Mini's are short wheelbase and just can't do what the VWs could on rougher roads.
When the engines get smaller, or whatever is coming next year, it looks like Devillier's Hilux is going to be the #$@#. Although it isn't very good in the sand, and isn't going to be.
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Honestly I know this may not be a popular opinion but I'd rather see the ASO outlaw the SCORE vehicles. This is a Rally-Raid race it should be competed in Rally-Raid style vehicles. Letting SCORE vehicles compete is akin to your local paved short-track letting a K&N series car compete with the Latemodels.
On the other hand if you look at it Robby is technically in the "Open Competition" class. Should that class really be "Run What Ya Brung"? And if it would be RWYB should competitors in that class still be allowed to compete for the overall standings or should it be a race within itself? The downside of this class is that you wouldn't officially compete for the Overall win & if a factory backed team would want to come it they could easily throw F1 budgets at it & dominate. The upside is the fast cars in that class would probaly be the fastest in the rally & they'd put on a hell of a show for the fans and it'd probaly lead to some wide variety such as for example the Caswell Baja BMW.
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Didn't Rob have a top speed DISADVANTAGE to the VW's over the last couple of years? Look back at our conversations and we were all beatching about the size of the restrictor previously. We wouldn't have been if Rob had been rocketing away over clear ground. The top speed of the Hummers is nothing special, the lack of top speed of the Mini's is the issue IMO;
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Permalink Reply by NIKAL on
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I think the 2013 rules will have negative effect on the V8 gas engines, thus hurt RGM. The fact is the Hummer is not that much better this year, the facts are VW and their dominance is not there, the Mini's, BMW, Toyota and Hummer teams would not have a prayer to beat the VW team if they were still racing Dakar.
Also consider the last few years of Dakar. There were many more rally specific type stages where this yer their have been a huge increase in wide open desert stages, like we are used to seeing here in the States and in Baja. Robby knew in the past when he raced the rally car type stages he had to just hang on and not lose to much time. We have not heard RG talk anything about just trying to hang on and keep from loosing more then 5 minutes on these types of stages.
Will the ASO make changes to the 2 wheel drive class? Yep! and I dont see those changes helping RGM.
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Permalink Reply by Capt. Allen "Pez Loco" on
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Nikal I can always rely on you to get it right when everyone else doesn't see the picture. Next thing you know someone will be saying lets race the TT at 5 mpg and 5500lbs, yah right.
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Permalink Reply by Hendricus on
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The sanctioning body owns the event and owns the rules. It's their call. In one sense it's as simple as that.
Racing promotes products. In SCORE and NASCAR it's not so much about Ford, GM, Chrysler and Toyota, although this is a part of it. But the fastest cars pick-up the high-dollar logo wraps. If Ferrari figured out how to win in NASCAR, it would not be long until there was an orange Home Depot sponsored Ferrari.
The chassis are custom machines. Robby could actually power the Hummer with a VW turbo diesel. I'm not up on the power curves of neither the Chev engine he has now, nor the VW turbo diesel. Perhaps the Chev is allowed more power because of 2wd, I don't know. The bodies on the cars are what ever you want them to be. Case in point is the rumor of Robby running a Maserati SUV next year.
If the idea of SCORE type racers competing and perhaps dominating the Dakar does not appeal to the promoters, then it does not have to. There are pluses and minuses to opening up the event to SCORE type cars. But if the mission of the ASO is to have a certain type or tradition, of car be the front-runner, then it needs to make that clear.
I'm sure RGR (Robby Gordon Racing) will evaluate the rules for 2013, and will decide if 2013 is something they want to pursue or not.
For me, this year proved something I've known all along, long travel, SCORE-type racers dominate the desert. The DAKAR is a grueling racing. It's 14 frick'n days of off road racing over some amazing terrain. I'm sure I will check in on the Dakar next year whether RGR is there or not.
Now, if I were the ASO I would strive to create something that had an unlimited class, and many other classes as well. The Pikes Peak hill climb comes to mind. Eventually though, the dominating class of car will arise. There really is a lot to work with here.
This was actually a great year. I think it is time for us to quit being angry. The "us" being the RGR fans and RGR. There are things to still be angry about and there are things that should not be ignored, but this does need to be our predominant vibe for the rest of the race. The has been a wonderful two weeks of racing, and there is much to be proud of. RGR did a fantastic job.
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Permalink Reply by Bonzai on
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If think, they will change rules and/or make the course at the advantage of a shorter wheel base.
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If the interest or mission of the ASO is to promote rally-type race cars, drivers, and teams, then they need to do what they need to do. If promoting compact-economy-cars turned race-car is your thing, then come on out boldly and confidently.
Robby brought his V8 American "monster" (called "monster" several times in the Euro videos) to have some fun, and promote his interest. It seems this year the conflict of interest was boiled out a bit.
It's the ASO's call. The rule changes will reflect and show their interest.
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Permalink Reply by ktm pilot on
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Over the past few years ASO has limited motorcycle engine size to 450cc, to reduce speed.
There used to be 650-950 KTM's running Dakar, not any more. Johnny Campbell, RG navigator ran a 650 Honda one year.
But I like the car classes how they are for now.
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